Remember back when MTV asked Bill Clinton such frivolous questions like “boxers or briefs”? Well, that was then and this is now.
As Bill Clinton campaigns on behalf of Hillary, young audiences are still challenging the former President, but on more weighty matters, such as the Clinton political legacy. The students over at MTVU sat down with Bill to talk about this current campaign, the Clinton Global Initiative and that comment Melissa Etheridge made about the Clintons “throwing the gay community under a bus.” Yep, they’re not playing.
Watch the exchange, and go to MTVU for more. Bill gets fired up! And the MTVU crew stays on him. It’s good stuff.
And after the jump, watch the original exchange between Melissa Etheridge and Hillary Clinton (from last summer’s Visible Vote Presidential Forum on Logo) to see how this conversation all began.
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It's more important and direct affect on married gay people is that it allows every federal agency to discriminate against us. We don't have to move to another state to feel the discrimination, the federal government shares it every chance they get. This is not OK, and I'm pretty horrified that everyone let that rhetorical sleight of hand go.
I did some research via the public library and the archives at the New York Times to remind myself exactly what was being said - or not said - between May 1996 and October 1996.
The result: Bill is covering his ass again. He did it then and he is doing it now. Love him (or her) or hate him (or her) they should not be allowed to get away with expecting us to thank them for limiting our citizenship.
Read it at my blog:
http://www.myspace.com/peej66
or at Pam's House Blend: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/
Oh - and don't forget to show Jay Leno your gayest face: http://mygayestlook.com/
Obama is our greatest hope!!!
With friends like the Clintons, who needs enemies?
That people are still willing to support them after their mistakes - which far outweigh any good they've done, and illustrate just how little we matter when it comes to political expediency - well, I guess we deserve what we get in that case.
Go ahead and vote for Hillary if you have a desire to be thrown under the bus yet again.
You simply are so wrong as a matter of fact in stating that "in years past he [Obama] was not a supported of gay rights until thsi campaign." Here are the facts:
Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois: Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Barack Obama in the United States Senate: Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard.
Here's how HRC rated Barack Obama:
Barack Obama on Hate Crimes: Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.
Employment Non-Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believes it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military: Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."
Gay & Lesbian Adoption: Barack Obama believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals.
Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.
He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.
"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Bigots didn’t raise the idea of DOMA as a constitutional amendment until Bush2’s first term. Anyone who says otherwise, including Bill or Hillary Clinton or one of their shills, will have to prove it - there is NO record of an amendment being proposed until years later. Clinton is a bold but not particularly skillful liar – he didn't inhale, didn’t have sex with Monica and didn’t really support DOMA. His rewrite of DOMA history was repeated when he claimed that Kerry lost in 2004 because he refused to take Clintons advice and support state DOMA’s. According to NEWSWEEK Magazine “President Clinton, who signed the Defense of Marriage Act when he was in the White House, advised Kerry in a phone call early in the campaign to find a way to support the state bans.”
The events leading up to the 1996 Congressional and Presidential elections explain his support for DOMA. Under his leadership the Democrats backed anti-worker bills like NAFTA, decimated welfare and health care, and deregulated corporate predators. But there was a price to pay for throwing working people under the bus – they lost their decade’s long control of Congress. Clintons own election was by no means assured so he did what Democrats invariably do when challenged; he jumped to the right to ‘broaden’ his appeal and went after the bigot vote. (It’s just what Hillary’s campaign manager Barney did by trashing ENDA and the hate crimes bill.) According to TIME Magazine “By the time Clinton arrived in Chicago for his party's convention in August, nothing that hinted at liberalism was left hanging on him. When the President, who had begun his term advocating the rights of gays in the military, came around to supporting the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred federal recognition for gay and lesbian unions, Dole was wide-eyed. "Is there anything we're for that he won't jump on?" Dole asked. The answer, essentially, was nothing...”
What we do know with absolute certainty is that Clinton, in a bid to be reelected in 1996 boasted about his bigotry in signing DOMA. The AP ran a story on October 17, just three weeks before the 1996 which said “After angry complaints from gay-rights advocates, the Clinton campaign on Wednesday replaced an ad running on religious radio stations that boasted of the president's signature on a bill banning gay marriages....The Clinton spot also touted his signing of the Defense of Marriage Act, in spite of earlier White House complaints that the Republicans' use of the issue amounted to "gay baiting." Clinton’s ads were so bigoted and so scandalous that even his lapdogs in the HRC felt compelled to let out a yap or two.
Bill Clinton was NEVER a friend of the GLBT communities. Like all politicians he was perfectly willing to make promises, issue this or that executive order and sit down for coffee with self appointed community ‘leaders‘, i.e., democrats who’d hustled for votes for him and were satisfied with the few crumbs he threw our way. Even so he never had the backbone of a Truman, who issued an order forbidding color based discrimination in the armed forces. The only things Clinton ever had the spine to fight for were cuts in welfare, tax cuts for the rich, deregulation and NAFTA.
“Solider in Iraq” what exactly is this mystifying, bewildering and complex history of DOMA? Why would you claim that DOMA was anything but a terrible body blow to our communities, a legal lynching of our rights and standing in society by a frenzied mob of congressional bigots who voted for it by lopsided majorities of 85-14 in the Senate and 342-67 in the House?
Why would you say that Slick Willie was our friend when he immediately ran to scum like Robertson and Falwell to broadcast ads boasting that he’d signed DOMA, beging for the votes of bigots? ‘Soldier’, do all you friends treat you that way, stabbing you in the back and then pouring salt on the wound? Maybe you need a better class of friends.
Now do you understand the phrase “With Democrats like this who needs Republicans”? Does that put the recent trashing of ENDA and the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bills by Clinton’s campaign manager Barney Frank in perspective? That also happened just before an election. Do you begin to see a pattern here or do you need a few more stab wounds before you wake up?
Just so you know, the "Obama Girl" is actually a paid actress. She doesn't sing, she'a an actress doing a job. The video about the Obama Girl is a commercially done video.
The Obama Girl never even voted for Obama!
Second, Clinton's argument that repealing DOMA would cause a backlash is a cowardly reason not to support equal rights for all Americans. It's never going to get any better if politicians don't show any backbone because of possible, nebulous repercussions that may or may not happen.
And I am a (Bill) Clinton fan, but this is a dumb move!
The Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA) was not introduced in Congress until 2002.
Both Bill and Hillary Clinton are trying to re-write history by saying they had to support DOMA to head off the FMA.
Neither will answer reporters questions: What will you do NOW?
Leslie is exactly right. The marriage amendment excuse that Bill and Hillary have been using to try to explain away DOMA has no foundation in fact. They will say anything.
Check it out, it's great.
Could you please point me to any reference on HillaryClinton.com which supports your position that the Clintons are "pro gay"? You see, I have exhaustively looked at her website, and while it is full of position statements and multiple-point plans on virtually every issue under the sun, I could find no reference to her being against DOMA or DADT.
In full disclosure, although I am an Obama supporter, I must confess that I do not think he will be any better than Clinton on GLBT issues. However, he did support the passage of anti-discrimination laws against gays and lesbians while in the Illinois State Legislature and, more importantly, he has not yet disappointed me legislatively on gay issues on which he was required to vote.
At the end of the day, I'm sure that Hillary & Obama are indistinguishable on gay and lesbian issues. However, because that issue is a wash between the two candidates, I nevertheless support Obama because of his more progressive policies on other issues, including ending the war in Iraq (Clinton in fact supported the war, and is lying when she claims she will end it), criminal justice (Obama is on record for decriminalization of marijuana and reformed the death penalty system in Illinois while Hillary believes in executing even the mentally retarded), and ethics and reform in government (the Clintons represent everything that is corrupt and obstructionist about politicians).
Like his wife, Bill wants to re-write history.
He signed DOMA in 1996. A Federal Marriage Amendment was not introduced in Congress until 2002! DOMA was no "compromise" against any real threat. It was: Don't come to the bus stop. Don't plan to get on and you won't get run over.
It's worse than DADT in the military.
Sign me - 58, "engaged" to the same man for 33 years and waiting to be "just" married.
So are you saying that queers are being uppity for demanding marriage and other rights? Baby steps?
How long would you have us wait? We already have waited more than 200 years for any basic realization of rights in this country. Heck, we don't even have ENDA yet! This country was able to resolve slavery & disenfranchisement of women in less than 200 years, and yet queers still must wait?
Saying that the Clintons are pro-gay is like saying an abusive person beats his or her spouse out of love with the statement: "it's for your own good." Save me the after-the-fact spin predicated on lies and cover about the "historical context and complexity" of the issue. Talk about dysfunction.
'm sorry, but I do not look at DOMA or DADT and sing yea, the Clintons are pro-gay! With friends like the Clintons, who needs enemies?
Remember, DOMA was veto proof because the Democrats in Congress, including vice-presidential candidates Lieberman and Edwards, supported it. The Democratic party as a whole betrayed us more than Bill Clinton.
Does Obama no longer believe, that "states should be under no obligation to recognize same-sex marriages from other states...that a long-recognized public policy exception to the Constitution's Full Faith and Credit Clause exempts a state from having to recognize a same-sex marriage from another state which runs counter to its own public policies"?
Does he now disagree with his Constitutional law advisor Lawrence Tribe that, "Same-sex couples ... are neither better nor worse off with DOMA repealed"?
If so, you'd better inform ABC News.
- http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3468949&page=1
Bill Clinton has been much wiser than we homo's given him credit. His "don't ask don't tell" pushed the topic to the forefront. It probably ultimately led to his political assassination, by the right wing republicans. But his approach of given the public what they can stand at the time was brilliant. He knows, shoving it down people throats might work for QueerNation, but in reality of politics and most of the USA voter, it takes easy, baby steps.
Bill Clinton deserves credit for Federal departments adopting non-discrimination clauses in the 1990s. The Clintons are pro gay.
Obama: "We argue about gay marriage. You know, in the meantime the planet is, you know, potentially being destroyed. We've got a war that is bankrupting us. And we're going to argue about gay marriage? I mean, that doesn't make any sense." PageQ has the video.
I wonder how Pauline Parks is going to rationalize, justify and spin Obama's remarks?
Tisa make a excellent point too. Melissa Etheridge, like Barack Obama, is all talk and no action.
Rosie speaks out on this issue. Ellen at times. Where are the voices of public gay men here?!
Ellen should do a in depth show on this issue, bring enlightment and outline support to why gay people should have the rights to married.
The Clintons seem to feel that because sometimes he and Hill give lip service to gays ("hey, some of our best friends are gays!") that we must genuflect before them. What is frustrating is that the gay and lesbian community has been so abused for so long that we become grateful for any crumbs from the table we can get, and crumbs is all the Clintons ever have offered us & in this interview Bill is essentially telling us that we better be grateful for those crumbs or suffer the infamous Clinton wrath.
The fact is that Bill & Hill signed into law two of the most homophobic pieces of federal legislation in decades -- Don't Ask, Dont, Tell & Defense of Marriage Act -- and the Clintons have the nerve to continue showing their ugly pusses around the gay and lesbian community. If gay Republicans are self-loathing, then gay supporters of the Clintons are self-deluded.
A genuine leader brings the country with him or her in order to do the right thing, and if Bill & Hill really supported our rights, then they would have fought against DOMA and DADT and marshalled every political resource available to them and within the Democratic Party to fight for us; instead, they politically punted, and as Melissa Etheridge accurately stated we were thrown under the bus. The Clintons have demonstrated that they do not deserve our support: lie to me once, shame on you; lie to me twice, shame on me.
I remember watching the Democratic candidates on MTV (or was it Logo?) when Melissa Etheridge took Hillary to task: I loved it! There are good Democrats out there on the issues (like Dennis Kosinich, Russ Feingold), and I wish that we as a community would start giving our money and votes to the candidates who really support us rather than just saying they do as they otherwise stab us in the back.
I totally agree. The gay community often tosses people like the Clinton's and other elected official, under the bus for not effectively achieving results. Never have I once heard, thank you for trying. We put pressure on them to take a politic unpopular stand, often at the risk of their careers, not ours.
The truth is, if we want gay marriage to happen, several things have to be done. We must support and seek openingly gay and lesbian qualified people to get elected at the state level. We have to work with the opposite side, to bring understand, public awareness to this issue. Public sentiment to support this issue is the key to this movement.
Our community needs to put as much effort into this issue as we do lastest fashions or the next circuit party. If that was the case, we would already be wedding and divorcing.
If we cannot get more states to recognize gay marriages, then we are not going to achiveve this goal.
The Clinton's are not anti- gay, they are politicailly savy. I remember the oppositional hatred environment at the time, Bill Clinton is referring.
Let's not forget how close George Bush came to getting the constitutional amendment passed defining marriage.
Last point, I love Melissa too, but I do not see her out fight this cause publicly. Until gay people billed public momentun at the state level gay marriage will only be a dream.